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« Reply #30 on: June 02, 2017, 04:14:40 PM »

Or we could use what Ianiant, Ixora and Robin suggested and use criminals that have done heinous acts for experiments.

Of course they would not be put into experiments that are really dangerous like radioactivity.
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« Reply #31 on: June 02, 2017, 04:22:14 PM »

how do we test things like how the brain matures
you can't get infants and toddlers to say yes
1 - we stop the random atrocity experiments that have zero scientifically merit for any other reason than "hey what happens if we *insert painful thing for animals*.
but there isn't zero scientific merit
But we would treat living and breathing things as just objects. If you want to learn how fears develop then don't use poor things that deserve a free home.
what else would we use
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« Reply #32 on: June 02, 2017, 04:24:48 PM »

And all three feel pain, and should not be subjected to it for the cruel needs of scientists.
By that logic no one would test anything, who cares if mice feel pain as long as the testing could be helpful
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« Reply #33 on: June 02, 2017, 04:28:33 PM »

the mice
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« Reply #34 on: June 02, 2017, 04:29:28 PM »

By that logic no one would test anything, who cares if mice feel pain as long as the testing could be helpful

Because we do not have the right to take animals from their natural habitats and abuse them. Just because t could help us does not mean that anything must die.

We have the technology to phase out animal testing; our computers can simulate everything to a high degree of efficiency, to the point where all you need is to test it on humans and see if it works (for medicine). It is more expensive to do so, but we can do this instead which will actually be more accurate than testing on animals and morally right as well.

how do we test things like how the brain matures
you can't get infants and toddlers to say yesbut there isn't zero scientific meritwhat else would we use

I don't think we need to kill infants and toddlers to see their brain?

Harmless experiments should not be outlawed at all; I am talking about the ones that are 'tests' and potentially can kill.

There is not much scientific usage in "if we kill 500 mice, will the other leftover mice be scared?".
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« Reply #35 on: June 02, 2017, 04:31:45 PM »

i mean..clinical trials are a thing...

they practically have to sign a contract like "we will pay you if we test this out on you, but we are not responsible if anything happens to you if you sign this."
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« Reply #36 on: June 02, 2017, 04:33:07 PM »

Or we could use what Ianiant, Ixora and Robin suggested and use criminals that have done heinous acts for experiments.

Of course they would not be put into experiments that are really dangerous like radioactivity.

Why not?
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« Reply #37 on: June 02, 2017, 04:33:14 PM »

guys, clinical trials are a thing lol

Are those where they basically get consenting adults to use new medicine?
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« Reply #38 on: June 02, 2017, 04:33:48 PM »

Why not?

Because they ARE human in the end, and they are just like you. They shouldn't be poisoned just so we can see what happens.
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« Reply #39 on: June 02, 2017, 04:34:04 PM »

I don't think we need to kill infants and toddlers to see their brain?
you don't need to kill mice to look at fears

also there's the ethical dilemma of possibly ending one life to save thousands, which is the aim of medicine testing
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« Reply #40 on: June 02, 2017, 04:35:01 PM »

Are those where they basically get consenting adults to use new medicine?
Medicine or any chemical products matter of fact. so cosmetics count too.
they pay you if you are willing to be a subject, and you sign a contract saying you are responsible for anything that happens to you.

fun fact: my mom gets to write reports to either help approve/reject a new drug from entering the market.
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« Reply #41 on: June 02, 2017, 04:36:09 PM »

Because they ARE human in the end, and they are just like you. They shouldn't be poisoned just so we can see what happens.

Let's not forget that they would have ***ed and/or killed children.
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« Reply #42 on: June 02, 2017, 04:39:55 PM »

tbh I wouldn't mind this kind of testing on like...terrorists or someone
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« Reply #43 on: June 02, 2017, 04:40:00 PM »

you don't need to kill mice to look at fears

also there's the ethical dilemma of possibly ending one life to save thousands, which is the aim of medicine testing

Then we shouldn't kill mice to look at fears, but yet that is exactly what people will do in their experiments.

Let's not forget that they would have ***ed and/or killed children.

They have a beating heart, they have a conscience. Their choices should not mean that they should be condemned to extreme pain and torture. Solitary confinement is bad enough...

Medicine or any chemical products matter of fact. so cosmetics count too.
they pay you if you are willing to be a subject, and you sign a contract saying you are responsible for anything that happens to you.

fun fact: my mom gets to write reports to either help approve/reject a new drug from entering the market.

I suggested that too, testing it on consenting adults instead.
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« Reply #44 on: June 02, 2017, 04:40:42 PM »

tbh I wouldn't mind this kind of testing on like...terrorists or someone

I would be fine with testing on those type of people as long as it is humane in some form.

Like, basically what I mean is we should not be torturing them.
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